английский через the beatles

I think that the kids in the 60s always wanted something that was different from the boring old traditional British style... even if they got their gear made up bespoke from English tailors, it wasn't the stiff Savile Row silhouette. It had to be something exotic, or at least something foreign/ international... I think in this respect, the Beatles were not different from the London mods...As an aside:There was a fad for the city gent look in 1962, however, and it's always mentioned as the origin of the waist suppression in the mod suits, but I think that style was still different from the typical old English look, probably much more slim fit, not too full or "drapey"... and after all, it was just a short fad, at least the hardcore Mayfair city gent look... I guess, it came from watching Patrick Macnee as John Steed in "The Aviators", or from reading about Beau Brummel and all this Regency dandy stuff, maybe also from Sean Connery's James Bond, but Connery doesn't look very stiff, too... Even if these clothes were made in SR, they show the influence of modern fashion, Continental and maybe also American style...I think that's what Adam doesn't want to understand, when he maintains, that the Mod suit style was essentially British, and that he doesn't know about Italian or American suits being bought by his mates or by his gang in 1963/64.... maybe it's just a point in order to sell his suits, maybe it's what he reallly believes is true, but then he's still wrong in interpreting the facts, because these tailors must have been  familiar with both Continental and American style for at least 5 or 6 years... As Barnes mentions "the Italian Look went though many modifications" and Hardy Amies also mentions that the modern English style owes a great debt to the Italians, and that Italian fashion in return had become more anglicized by 1964...The Beatles music was heavily influenced by American rock'n'roll, R&B and especially by the Motown sound (Money/Please Mr Postman/ You Really Got A Hold On Me...)... I think I read in some "Britpop" fanzine ca. 1995 that Paul McCartney had said in an interview that he was somehow embarrassed by "yesterday" because they thought of themselves as an R&B group just like the London bands... I could mention a lot of examples for this, yet, there's also something typical British in the way that the Beatles play American music... do I make myself clear, or does this just sound like rubbish... Cheers, HBH... the pub is waiting...

Also worth saying is that the early Beatles music isn't English & nor is the comedy of the Beyond The Fringe boys. - Amerika!

Last edited by Russell_Street (2009-02-20 08:28:19)

A thing worth saying is that the Button-down collar was NOT English at this point in history. Nor was the tab collar.The 'Eton' collar was also so stylised at this point also that you couldn't link it to anything in the menswear of the day. It was HUGE.The 'Beyond The Fringe' guys also picked up on Ivy influences too from their American trips. (Dr.) Jonathan Miller often talks about America and Americans at length and one of the things he mentions is that they had button-down shirts. These shirts were well & truly foreign at this point. Exotic Import jobs. - Right.   - Not English!J.

... Not English: - What has been written about this? Surely something?

I like John's coat - shawl collar? Football buttons?

Hello!Ummmm....I need you to work with me again...  (Do you ever mind me keeping on doing this?) ^ This certainly isn't English style or anything else but an American influence. Liverpool had The Cunard Yanks and all those records from the Docks which the Beatles copied...I spy Ivy!Thoughts?Jim

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